yea I've noticed quite a change at the store as well. FPL charges what is called "demand" for places that use more energy than normal, so they actually are charging like double per kWH for the same amount of electricity because of the "demand". To say the least it was already a very very high electric bill as you can expect... but we haven't added any new equipment or done anything different of late and the bill has gone up collectively almost $200 since may/june.

To think we can clone living organisms, and collect rocks from the face of mars, but they can't fix (cough don't want to fix it should say) the rising cost of enengy due to supply/demand of fossil fuels is hard to swallow. Its called milking the cow folks!

I will probably be harassed for the following comment but it is my opinion.

I for one am hopeful and slightly glad for the high prices of energy especially oil for gas and electricity. It is the wake up call that this country needed. Ask yourself would you be concerned with your electricity bill Marco if power was as cheap as it was four years ago? The prices are necessary to help us reduce demand and I think it is one way to get Americans to use more fuel efficient cars and get us to reduce wasteful consumption of electricity.

I disagree. Being wasteful is a conscientious decision. Remind me to throw my next power bill at you!!!!!!

All joking aside, I would like to apply your argument regarding today's cost issues. It is a good wake up call for the actions of prior administrations....presidential and congressional. Bad past policy makes for bad current energy prices. Same could be said for immigration, taxes, drugs, etc.

I can somewhat agree but I also think greed plays the biggest factor of all. Like i said in the first place there is no way these mulibillion dollar empires who supply energy haven't already found some type of solution to using more world friendly energies. Its simply the fact that they want to milk these fossils fuels for every penny. Instead they pass the increases (which are mostly based on speculation not fact) on to the customer. I'd place all my money on saying that if tomorrow every oil well and coal mine ran dry they'd have the next best thing lined up in order to fill the gap. You just don't see it now becuase according to them why should you? Or maybe I just think everything is a consperacy either way its all the same

You have touched on an excellent point. The cost of gas at the pump is not a "real" number. It is a composition of three numbers. 1: actual cost + profit, 2: Government (fed, state and local) and 3: speculation.

Before you all jump on the evil oil companies look at there actual profit margin not the gross dollar. If my department had the same profit margin as the oil companies, I would be fired.

didn't exxon mobil profit like 3 billion dollars within the last year. who cares what the profit margin is if your banking 10 figures profit. And your right road tax accounts for a large chunk of gas prices.

Did i mention my car gets 10 miles to the gallon?

14 mpg here

People laughed at me about three years ago when I purchased a Diesel Vw Jetta-about a year later everyone stopped laughing. Yeah Diesel is about 30% more expensive but I get 40-52 mpg!

There is a ton of new technology to make cars more fuel efficient and create power without using fossil fuels. They are two things, one usually much more expensive to start up(solar and wind) and two not as highly subsidized as fossil fuel. This is definitely our elected officials fault. Right now in the house or the senate, I forget there is a bill to help off set the cost of building solar an wind power generation plants but it is stalled and the current plan is set to expire. Therefore all of the companies that have solar and wind plants scheduled to be built are putting the plans on hold to see if these measures go through.

Did you know that 90 square miles of solar panels would power this entire country. That is less than 2 square miles per state--and they don't have to be all together.
If we covered 20% of the countries roof tops with solar panels we would provide enough electricity for the entire country.

No way that 90 square miles would do it. If that was the case, it would have been done long ago.

I'd sure like to see your source on that one!!!!

yea 90 square miles seems like a stretch. I do believe that even if it could be done it wouldn't save us the consumer any money. Sure it'd be more friendly on the environment which is great but.... ultimately the energy companies would still capitalize. And who can blame them. I could see something along the lines of car insurance rates. Government law makes it mandatory yet doesn't regulate it.

Current solarcell technology is not very efficient, and is expensive. We're not far away from seeing the release of more efficient solar cells. Ones that can be printed on material on site, and will be flexible ...

Lots of good stuff coming in the near future.

You would think if it was that easy it would have been done long ago. Have you ever heard of Lobbyists? Those people that the oil companies and power companies pay millions of dollars to fight congress and the house to pass or not to pass bills in their favor?

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/991/

Yes solar is not as efficent and is a bit more expensive but if it was subsidized as much as the coal industry-- upfront cost would be more but maintenance cost per year vs each year paying to pull coal from the ground plus maintenance on the power plant.

http://www.geotimes.org/apr08/article.html?id=feature_solar.html

Check these out!

Ecogeek is a blog from 2007. Where is the science? I didn't see any. Did you actually read it? The bloggers are right on 92 miles square is not the same as 92 square miles. 92 miles square is 92 miles per side or 92 miles x 92 miles = 8,464 square miles.

As for the second, a little better info, but again, did you read it. The proposal put before the European Parliament was $400 billion (with a "B") over 30 years. At this point today, how is that cheaper than oil or your example of coal?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't pursue other energy sources, my point is that we have built no new refineries or nuclear power plants since the late 70's. Why? Ask the environmentalists that are screaming their heads off right now because gas is so high!!!!!

Another thing you may not have considered. Solar power will not work (not cost effective) in all of the northern United States. Angle of the sun, seasons, lack of daylight, etc.

I will relate this to reef aquariums. Reefs need lots of sunlight (solar power). Northern most reef I know of is Bermuda and even that one is not great for coral diversity. That is roughly same latitude as North Carolina?

I've never heard of anyone using solar tubes for a reef tank up north. (Threw that one in for Marco!)

So we take approximately 8500 square miles and put it in Hawaii, the western deserts, and Florida.

If we can't drill offshore or in Alaska because it would destroy the environment, should we carpet the environment in mirrors and solar panels (sarcasm intended)

Of course, my arguments are predicated on the "facts" listed in Ecogeek. If they are wrong, then my arguments are definitely wrong.

Jeff ... this is taking the thread a little bit off subject, But if you look closely, some of the most successful greenhouses in the coral propagation industry are North of North Carolina .... They get plentiful light, and have less heat to deal with. based on reading Anthony's books of Coral Propagation, and other first hand experiences from Green Houses propagators, it's easier & cheaper for them to heat their GH's during the winter up north, than trying to cool the GH's & tanks down south.

Again ... that took the thread off subject, and Yes, i do realize you were talking about Solar Tubes, rather than GH's.

Florida is a hard state to light with Solar ... due to the constant TH's, TS & Hurricanes we're constantly fighting mother nature. Solar panels would be more popular if we could avoid the damage by the wind.

It's believed that the new panels will be more resistant to wind and the forces, as they will be flexible ..... possibly to the point that they could be laid on a roof like a tarp.

--marco

Lets get back on subject here....

I'm going to guess that our electric bill should be much less next month....

I agree with you Marco. I was trying to make two points.

1. The technology is not quit there to be cost effective.

2. I get frustrated when people start bashing the U.S. because they jumped on some band wagon without doing there homework. 90 square miles of solar panels was an easy example (sorry Bill, not trying to pick on you, just the "article")

But regarding greenhouses, are they using shade cloth? If I were to set up a green house in my back yard, I would probably have to use 20% to 40% shade cloth because we would get too much sun for most corals. (By the way, the same applies to orchids. Vandas, Cats, and all the hi-light orchids are grown in south Florida, Phals, which like medium light are grown in the northern gulf states, the low light orchids tend to be greenhouse grown in the pacific northwest)

As for power bill......mine will probably be $500 +/- $30. And no, I am not at all happy about it and all for doing whatever it takes (energy wise) to bring it down!!!!!

Yes, even the northern greenhouses have to use shade cloth ... I believe down here people are using around between 25%-40% on average.

Just got the latest FPL Bill.

$263.24, down from $330.57

To update the kWh /day chart:

Average kWH used /day

2008
September 74.00 kWh
August 88.32 kWH
July 92.90 kWH
June 100.14 kWH
May 99.56 kWH
April 84.59 kWH
March 73.79 kWH
February 58.66 kWH
January 69.09 kWH

No comment Jeff ?
Or are you just waiting for the LCEC bill to come in to post up ?!

Of course this drop in usage comes after breaking down the frag tank(s), and changing up the lighting schedule a bit.
We're down to 4 tanks inside the house now ...

265gal - (3) 250w mh, (2) Dart pumps
34gal - (1) 250w mh + (2) 24" T5's
12gal - PC's
10gal

We took Cristinas chiller offline a few weeks, close to a month ago. Added a set of fans for evaporative cooling, and on my tank adjusted the light cycle to be on during the afternoon-night hours, rather than early day - early night. Did the same to cristinas tank tonight, to try & offset the temp flux from the AC being set up to 82 during the day hours when nobody is home.
Now that cristina is working again, hopefully the power bill will drop a bit more.

$540, I'm still crying. My plan was solatubes in December. I want to put them in so that the tank can acclimate with the least amount of sun (winter solstace) and gradually acclimate to the summer sun.

Are you saying your elec. bill is $540??

yes, but not for long

Well the decision to go with Solatubes just got a little easier. Small electrical burning problem with the lights. Something is cooking inside my 5 in 1 AquaMedic HQI ballast. As soon as it cools down, I'll pull it apart to see what the problem is. If the whole thing is shot, I'm not sure it makes sense to replace it only to go with Solatubes in a couple of months. I may end up doing it this week.

Well the decision to go with Solatubes just got a little easier. Small electrical burning problem with the lights. Something is cooking inside my 5 in 1 AquaMedic HQI ballast. As soon as it cools down, I'll pull it apart to see what the problem is. If the whole thing is shot, I'm not sure it makes sense to replace it only to go with Solatubes in a couple of months. I may end up doing it this week.

What's the good word on the ballast?

Wiring connection (out) of the middle 250w ballast melted/caught fire. The heat damaged the outside casing of the third 250 w ballast. Since all three 250w ballasts were wired in series, they are shut down. The 2, 150w ballasts were wired in series as well, but independently. So, the tank currently has 5x150 watt 20K bulbs, VHO actinics and PC's at the ends. The 3 250w, 14K are currently out of commission. Tank is very blue at the moment.

What's the game plan? Is the ballast damaged, or just the case? Are you going to bypass the damaged ballast & try to run 2 of the 250's?

They want a picture via e-mail. Replacement parts are going to be $55 plus shipping. So, game plan is fix the lights.....redo the sump (didn't tell you about that one) and then redo the lights.

I'm going to "streamline" my overall setup. I'm currently running 6 tanks total in one system. I'm going to cut that to 3. When that is done, I'm going to cut holes in the roof.